Do me a favor.
If you know someone going to the Olympics in China this year, I need you to do something for me.
When they ask you if they can get you anything while they are there, say "YES!"
"You can bring all of our manufacturing jobs back."
Chances are the won't be able to carry that back with them, but it's the thought that counts.
In five years when literally EVERYTHING will be made in China, where does the guy who was born to work in a factory go for work? Douchebag Republicans will tell you all about the "changing marketplace" and how "people have to adapt to the changing marketplace." And "we live in technology base marketplace now, people have to adapt to it!"
Yeah, tell that to the guy with the junior high education who has no clue about how to use a computer. He's going to adapt to smoking meth and robbing your house when things get really bad.
And the technological marketplace is a load of shit too. The U.S. outsources more and more technology jobs to places like India every day. When the asshole who tells you about the "changing marketplace" has his job downsized to India, does he change his tune?
I don't hate these countries. We've done the same thing for years. They're just feeding their families like everyone else. I do hate the fact that every day, more and more of our goods are made somewhere else and sold back to us. This should be the number one priority on any wannabe President's agenda. Because when there are no jobs left, who will be able to buy the cheaply made Chinese crap?
So ask anyone going to China this summer if they can bring back just a job or two. It may just keep some meth head from stealing all the Chinese made goods out of your house.
JR
27 comments:
The Int'l editor of newsweek was on Daily Show last night and had some semi-positive news about this kind of thing. He wrote a book about it...anyway...
you should be a bit more concerned about the US being in China's pocket a la Citibank etc. Once they own alot of shit in the US I think it may get worse. But I do seem to recall a time you guys were freaking out about how the Japanese had bought alot of properties and biz back in the 90's and not much came from that.
I think its about time the US wealth was distributed more evenly worldwide..and yes it IS going to suck for a majority of the US population. Maybe ask the richest 3% to start investing at home rather than abroad.
oh and PS the Saudi's own you guys too.
Meth is cheap though right?
and don't forget the British own a shitload too. meth is cheap and Made in America baby! at least for now.
i can't argue with anything you've said. i've got no problem sharing the wealth, but sinking everything we've got into one country...a communist country...seems a bit odd.
i'm no nationalist, drum beating, anti-commie asshole, but isn't it weird that we (the U.S.) bend over on a regular basis and take it from a communist country? Cuba is a communist country, but the U.S. treats it like shit. why is one o.k. and the other not?
money. sweet, sweet money.
communists feel capitalism is evil and will be our undoing...i think they may be right. in pursuit of the purely American ideal of grabbing cash, we have fucked ourselves over. the only thing i can hope for is that the Chinese get fat, lazy and greedy and the same thing happens to them....and it becomes cheaper to operate in America.
but that won't happen because they work at gunpoint. a lot less complaining about wages when you've got a gun in your face.
good job America!
JR
China hasn't been Communist in 20 years. The reforms of Deng have turned into Authoritarian Capitalist state.
Which just shows once again that the US doesn't care about freedom for people, just for freedom of capital.
Aside from all the manufacturing job losses, the working class is also getting screwed by immigration. Once upon a time a man could make a good living as a carpenter, roofer, janitor, etc. All those jobs are now non-Union and minimum or sub-minimum wage. Close the border, kick out all the Mexicans, Central Americans, Eastern Europeans, and Asians and rebuild the unions. Then the working class will be saved.
Close the border, kick out all the Mexicans, Central Americans, Eastern Europeans, and Asians and rebuild the unions. Then the working class will be saved.
can't argue with that either. the funny thing is i've never thought that way until recently. enough is enough. i have no issue with anyone coming here legally and PAYING TAXES. but i can't pin it all on the immigrants. they're just doing what's best for them...just like we'd all do.
the corporations were corrupt so the unions were created. the unions got fat and corrupted themselves. both parties allowed it to happen. then the immigrants moved in and did what anyone else would do.
but what bothers me lately is the way people set up their culture in america and refuse to integrate. no way in hell i can move to japan and behave like i do here and not be ostracized.
it's like sports fans: here in colorado we get a lot of transplants so when the cubs play the rockies or the avs play the red wings, you get tons of fans coming to the games and acting like assholes. hey, i don't expect to NOT root for you team (i.e. home country), just don't come here and be a dick about it.
just so you know, cub fans, red wings fans, red sox and whatever bandwagon fans from other places are big dicks. and they love to come out and tell you about it.
JR
I recall the american indians suggesting the british get the fuck out as well.
You cannot stop immigration. And you should not strive to.
Illegal workers is of course a different issue and I'll let Lou Dobbs go on and on about that.
People will always take advantage of better opportunities..thats BIOLOGY!
Again, the US is going to feel the globalization (that they pushed for) growing pains as everyone else had to..just apparently in a more delayed and prolonged fashion with the xenophobia and general terror-phobia that seems to be prevalent.
The system is broken don't blame the immigrants.
Oh and check out what the PM of Australia had to say about cultural immersion..i think he was right on. You're welcom to live there just dont expect the country to revolve around your social constructs.
that's exactly it.
i think England has the same problem as the U.S. lots of people coming from nasty countries that don't treat their women well, and setting up shop like it's their home country.
could an American woman go to a muslim country and walk around with her boobs and hair in full view? no fucking way. now, if you want to go to another country like America or England and want to wear veils....cool. just please don't expect anyone else to and don't expect anyone to put up with your bullshit.....we have enough bullshit already.
but don't get me wrong in any of this: i don't blame immigrants. like has been mentioned here, this is what anyone would do to feed their family and make a better life. just don't set up little El Salvador in the middle of Colorado...it just makes things difficult for EVERYONE.
Actually the American share of global manufacturing output has increased by 4% over the past twenty years. We are now manufacturing more than we were in the 80's. I've been a longtime Hooligan reader and was actually a bit shocked to read a statement on your blog that was so woefully uninformed (factory workers employed at gunpoint? when did you make that shit up?). It's basically echoing the thoughtless dem talking point of "getting our jobs back", which they don't really mean, they're just pandering to a bunch of dead-end motherfuckers in Pennsylvania and Ohio. The most worrying trend with the Chinese is the fact that they are basically bankrolling the Bush Administration's reckless spending habits. If the dollar continues to go south vis-a-vis a basket of other currencies Beijing will begin to divest themselves of all of the government bonds that they have purchased over the last 10-15 years. This is an amount in the trillions of dollars, Washington has absolutely no means to repay these "loans" in the event that China decides to say, switch their investments from US$'s to Euro's or Sterling Pounds if they are seen to be safer. The effects of this would be so monstrously bad for everyone in America that economists haven't even been able to predict what the potential fallout would look like and the reverberations that would ripple for years afterwards.
The radically rapid expansion of the middle class in China is inarguably what historians will be talking about when discussing the first century of this millenia hundreds of years from now; all of the other bullshit going on now will be a footnote to this in the long run. It is of great benefit to mankind in general that this development is taking place. We can either choose to engage and work with the Chinese on this developing prosperity, or we can continue throwing up obstacles to their development that will, in the end, only serve to alienate them from us. Both the Dems and Repubs seem to favor the alienation route because America likes to have an enemy. It's retarded and damaging to both the Democratic Party and America at large for us to pursue it from this angle. A singularly globalised world has been what nearly all societies have been unconsciously working towards for the last 175 years. Jobs, like all other resources, will shift in a very liquid fashion in the coming years, people are going to have to realize this. If the computer that I'm typing this on wasn't manufactured in some umpronouncable Chinese shithole; I probably wouldn't have been able to afford it as readily as I did. The same goes with my cellphone, television, bicycle, home theater system, etc, etc...We like the benefits of this globalised labor force, but we're not too keen on it's flip side. Whatever, people will have to get over this shit because ain't nothing going to change. I'm sorry for the rant, but as Hong Kong based Foreign Exchange Analyst for a large American bank I felt uniquely qualified to point out the inadequacies of your statement, I hope that I haven't caused any sore feelings.
Oh yeah, and if you moved to Japan; you would be ostracized anyway just for being a white person...exclusion of outsiders is a hallmark of Japanese culture (as dictated by their language patterns)
yah what he said ;)
as a Hong Kong based Foreign Exchange Analyst you are, by far, more qualified than me to speak on the matter.
i can't argue with what you said, because a)i barely understand it, b)sounds about right and c) it was long.
but let me cover a few points here.
1) as a long time Hooligan reader, if you're not used to my uninformed opinion by now, you'll never be.
2) maybe they don't work at gunpoint, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think the Chinese govt wouldn't quickly resort to head cracking if the workers got out of line. if the workers at the lead filled kid's toy factory stopped working and demanded more money, you don't think there'd be guns involved? take off your Chinese tinted sunglasses and see the real world.
3) speaking of that, what is going on with all of you drinking the Chinese kool-aid (lead laced i'm sure.)? so many people have the attitude of "they're taking over anyway, just open the gate for them" it makes me ill. i understand they are a rising (risen?) economic power, but that doesn't mean you hand them the keys. if you mow lawns for a living and a new company starts up, you don't fold up the tent do you? no. you work harder.
and seriously, "It is of great benefit to mankind in general"??? you sound like you work for the glorious advancement of the People's Republic already. this is a bad government. the U.S. govt is evil, but the Chinese govt is evil-er. say what you want about America, but China is worse.
as i've stated earlier, i'm all cool with other countries grabbing a piece of the pie. that is, after all, what the free market is all about. what i don't like is when it's handed to them because of greed and fear. i'm not saying it's a simple fix to bring jobs back here, but it's imperative. we will be (are) fucked if it doesn't happen. the "dead-end motherfuckers in Pennsylvania and Ohio" will have no where to go except into your house when it gets bleak...well, not your house cuz you're in China worshiping at the alter of Communism....just kidding.
i know it sounds simple to talk about "bringing back jobs" but that's what it's about. unfortunately a lot of dumb people also talk about that...and immigration and other shit that makes my point seem dumb too. it's like when a genuinely smart person talks about religion (not too many of those), all the other assholes who drone on and on about it make what he has to say sound just as lame.
no sore feelings here...i love to discuss it.
JR
I am not in possession of any "Chinese tinted sunglasses". My job used to entail going over the border into Shenzhen and Guangzhou quite frequently (with more infrequent trips to Beijing and Shanghai). I hate the place, there is an unbelieveable level of shittiness in everything that is going on in that country. I am the last person in the world that would ever be considered as a Chinese apologist or moral relativist (you can ask anyone in Lan Kwai Fong that has ever had the misfortune of pulling up a bar stool next to me what I think of China after way too many drinks). I have thankfully risen to a position that now allows me to tell others that they have to go talk with the financial types on the dark side of the Hong Kong border.
The fact still remains that there is an enormous demographic shift the likes of which the world has never seen before going on there. That the US takes an active role in this development is absolutely imperative. There is a strong nationalistic sentiment taking over the younger, educated middle class that could be a disaster for other nations in the region and globally if it is allowed to grow unchecked by those that have the means to shape it's development. This nationalistic angst is only fueled by statements such as the one posted on your blog last week.
Are Chinese factory workers mistreated by western industrial standards? Absolutely. However, these are people that in living memory were quite literally eating bark off of trees for survival. Cities the size of Denver were starved to death during the Cultural Revolution. Most workers are quite happy and content to be able to comfortably provide for their families. Obviously this will not always be the case. Are conditions getting better for these people? Exponentially.
As the conditions get better and better, we need to ensure that they are seeing the world the way that we see it. That can only happen with our assistance. In no way do I advocate "giving them the keys" (they don't even have what could remotely be considered any rule of law), I do advocate working with them on developing along a more "Western" model.
I feel for the workers in the Rust Belt, but the manufacturing centers of the US have shifted out of their area; they need to follow those jobs. There is still a tremendous amount of industrial manufacturing going on the US, it's just that it's shifted away from the resources and nearer to the intended markets...if you want to work in a factory you have to go to it, it's not going to come to you. No amount of whinging is going to change simple economic constructs.
If the US starts to adopt even heavier protectionist stances (which is what you're suggesting) then you're all fucked. The rest of the world (that we shaped) will blow right by the US. The manufacturing jobs that you seem to think are so important will come back with a fury because it will make sense to use cheap American labor, but the workers will be ill treated by their Korean and Chinese bosses as they make tacky, dangerous, plastic Lunar New Year dragon puppets for the well to do masses on the other side of the Pacific. If I were you, for the sake of your children, I would stress that they get the best education your money can buy so that they aren't the ones that are exposed to that kind of job.
Just my thoughts, I'm sometimes wrong about stuff, and I maybe on this, but all the signs are telling me I'm not.
How does Taco fit into the equation?
>As the conditions get better and better, we need to ensure that they are seeing the world the way that we see it<
WTF? why? is america the only country that "sees" things the right way? give me a fucking break.
The US has no right to be shaping other's world vision and if you ask em the rest of the world is better off not pursuing that vision as it only helps to keep you guys ahead..as ws the thrust of your argument about shepparding the rest of the poor ignorant nations of this world
get off your high horse
You can give America all the shit you want, but it's pretty undeniable that we have overwhelmingly been a force for good on the international stage. Who would you rather the Chinese got development assistance from; the US and her allies, Russia, how about Indonesia? Give me a fucking break. I'll get off my high horse the second you take some remedial course in international relations.
Oh yeah, China actually does want to "see the world" how we see it. Why do you think Harvard, Yale, Stanford, (those are Universities, by the way) etc. are now seeing more applicants from the PRC than any other foreign country?
As long as other nations are seeking our assistance; we have every right to want them to see things as we do. Open your eyes for God's sake.
the comment I quoted relayed the idea that the influential Americans should force others to see things in a certain way. If people see something they want to pursue then of course they have a right. But I'm not for this neo-con bullshit of trying to control the ignorant masses..american or otherwise.
The fact that you used "bullshit" makes you seem more "real" and gives an air of street cred to your post. It makes it hard and gritty. However, I would suggest in the future you throw in "fuck", or even the use of the pejorative "man" could lend even more cred to your arguments.
duly noted, MAN.
Thanks for staying on the FUCKing point, homey.
Hey - I'm just "keeping it real".
whoa. i thought this was my page.
i'll be using the word "bullshit" with a liberal sprinkling of "fuck" thank you very much.
i don't want to force anyone to look at the world like the U.S. does, but really, if we're so bad, why does everyone want to come here?
i don't see too many people running off to China for a better life. but loads of Chinese come here every day.
yes, we're a bunch of dummies. yes, we've sold our souls to the Chinese. but anyone, and i do mean anyone, can come here and make a better life for his/her family.
it was said that poor Chinese are happy to have the crappy manufacturing job making lead filled toys. well, i'd argue that very soon, poor, dumb fuck Americans will be glad to have that job too.
bring that job back. put it in a shithole in the rust belt. pay them a small amount but give them health benefits and make sure they have a roof and some food (not lunchables). if you're educated enough to not have to work there, sweet. if not, i'll bet you'll be stoked.
i'm no economist so don't ask me how this massive endeavor can work, but it will work. just think of me as a facilitator of the good news. hallelujah!
now get back to arguing you commies!
JR
I think we need another fallout boy post to distract us commies from stealing your lines ;)
great topic!
Riedy - Like me (dusting off my old leather jacket) was an original punk rocker) I believe it’s why we all read his crap (no offense Reidy). So these discussions are good... to an extent. Seriously. look at Modest Mouse (rip-off artists) or any other venue that's come out recently. Where is your vitriol? I understand you have a kid(s) and congrats BTW. But music is seriously in the shitter. Same thing happened to the stupid hippies in the 70's... Bread WAS AT ONE TIME HAILED As the kings of rock (fuck that). John I know you have a lot of shit going on but we are here because you call Tool shit, when it's shit. Help us out.
Concerned fan -
Declan
Ummm. sorry bout the last post, I just read further posts.
D
yes, please read all the music stuff (sounds like you did).
i'll get back to that. i'm just shocked there has been 22 comments about this! break out the champale!
i've got a good music one coming up but i haven't been home. i'll get on it soon.
JR
break your back to ear your pay but dont forget to earn your pay
keep on keepin on
maybe there will be more to write and complain about when the music industry moves to China ;)
wait, you said Tool sucks? really?
Interesting op-ed in the Wall Street Journal today commemorating the 19th anniversary of Tianenmen Square. Talking about the more and more that China rids itself of it's recent Communist history, the more free and democratic everything is becoming. Of course it's not all going to happen in one stroke, but the gains that have been won since 1989 are quite substantial. The writer also advocates a stronger US advisory role in the democratization process. Call it neo-Con or whatever (it is the WSJ) but it makes sense...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121252350348242359.html?mod=rss_opinion_main
I saw this story on Frontline titled 'Tank Man' about TSq. They interviewed 4 collage students who where born during the "non-incident" 19 years ago. They showed them the famous photo. It was the 1st time they ever saw it and thought it was a fake. In China, all those young people have never heard of their own history! Recent history that is commonly known in Western society. (I hope people still remember) The Chinese govt will NEVER-EVER-NO WAY allow the American Way to infiltrate the minds of the huge work force. The only way 'in' is through our universities, as mentioned in a prior post. The other is through our Disney. We need to bypass the Tianenmen Generation and go straight for all those little kiddies during the Olympics! Walt knows the way for the only future global religion that can unite all the workers.
great thread jr !
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